[CLOSED] The Elemental Elites (continues in the new thread)

[Mr. Fox]

My entire last post was "If it is sent out BEFORE a set up pokemon gets a chance to set up." If Lucario or any fight types get any sort of boost Starapor's pitiful defs are going to be a major let down to him, other then that a sash is one of the only ways to guarantee that you are going to get a kill. I am sure that if you did an experiment and tested every balanced fight type against staraptor you would find he OHKOs every one of them. So if he is perhaps a lead, or is sent out as a revenger against, for example, my lead machamp, my team is going to really be hurting before I manage to take it out.

I am not complaining at the balance crew in any way I am just pointing out that fight has a serious problem in Starapor and many other fast flying types.

I just thought of something. You could say the same thing about bug. Staraptor could easily tear an entire team to shreds, but it can't because bug has the likes of Scizor, Ledian, Fortress, Durant, and even Shuckel. All of those pokes are able to either resist or out speed it and with their impressive attack/def stats take it out with out so much as a sweat, save scizor maybe.

I mean, come on! Take a look at Ledian's stats! Base Stats: 65 / 105 / 65 / 55 / 110 / 130. With 130 speed and 105 attack he is almost always going to OHKO any staraptor, not to mention it has access to Spore! But of course, the problem at hand is scarfed Staraptors and a scarfed one will eat Ledian for lunch.

Ponge, as I close this post I challange you to take every fight pokemon, every one of them and pit them head to head with Staraptor. Lets see who wins almost every time. With that I close one of my longest posts on this site.

[Shadowfred]

Ponge just said some ways to do it without set up, but that's not what I'm here for. I have made a team of 6 staraptors with scarfs. It's probably a little late for people to be testing, but I'll likely be on some time tomorrow (10-12 hours from now most likely) if you want to have a go proving your respective points.

[zylonnick]

My entire last post was "If it is sent out BEFORE a set up pokemon gets a chance to set up." If Lucario or any fight types get any sort of boost Starapor's pitiful defs are going to be a major let down to him, other then that a sash is one of the only ways to guarantee that you are going to get a kill. I am sure that if you did an experiment and tested every balanced fight type against staraptor you would find he OHKOs every one of them. So if he is perhaps a lead, or is sent out as a revenger against, for example, my lead machamp, my team is going to really be hurting before I manage to take it out.

I am not complaining at the balance crew in any way I am just pointing out that fight has a serious problem in Starapor and many other fast flying types.

I just thought of something. You could say the same thing about bug. Staraptor could easily tear an entire team to shreds, but it can't because bug has the likes of Scizor, Ledian, Fortress, Durant, and even Shuckel. All of those pokes are able to either resist or out speed it and with their impressive attack/def stats take it out with out so much as a sweat, save scizor maybe.

I mean, come on! Take a look at Ledian's stats! Base Stats: 65 / 105 / 65 / 55 / 110 / 130. With 130 speed and 105 attack he is almost always going to OHKO any staraptor, not to mention it has access to Spore! But of course, the problem at hand is scarfed Staraptors and a scarfed one will eat Ledian for lunch.

Ponge, as I close this post I challange you to take every fight pokemon, every one of them and pit them head to head with Staraptor. Lets see who wins almost every time. With that I close one of my longest posts on this site.

You obviously didn't got the point of my reply. I've beaten lots of Staraptors in the past (mostly in monotype against a mono normal team) in more then 1 way, like with that Hitmonlee or any other one of the pokemon I mentioned earlier. Just try them out and find out yourself.

[Roloc]

My entire last post was "If it is sent out BEFORE a set up pokemon gets a chance to set up." If Lucario or any fight types get any sort of boost Starapor's pitiful defs are going to be a major let down to him, other then that a sash is one of the only ways to guarantee that you are going to get a kill. I am sure that if you did an experiment and tested every balanced fight type against staraptor you would find he OHKOs every one of them. So if he is perhaps a lead, or is sent out as a revenger against, for example, my lead machamp, my team is going to really be hurting before I manage to take it out.

I am not complaining at the balance crew in any way I am just pointing out that fight has a serious problem in Starapor and many other fast flying types.

I just thought of something. You could say the same thing about bug. Staraptor could easily tear an entire team to shreds, but it can't because bug has the likes of Scizor, Ledian, Fortress, Durant, and even Shuckel. All of those pokes are able to either resist or out speed it and with their impressive attack/def stats take it out with out so much as a sweat, save scizor maybe.

I mean, come on! Take a look at Ledian's stats! Base Stats: 65 / 105 / 65 / 55 / 110 / 130. With 130 speed and 105 attack he is almost always going to OHKO any staraptor, not to mention it has access to Spore! But of course, the problem at hand is scarfed Staraptors and a scarfed one will eat Ledian for lunch.

Ponge, as I close this post I challange you to take every fight pokemon, every one of them and pit them head to head with Staraptor. Lets see who wins almost every time. With that I close one of my longest posts on this site.

always just ohko it wil scoli. scarfed rockslide ftw!

[Mr. Fox]

Thanks to ShadowFred both Ponge and I are proven right. Every pokemon that Ponge listed was able to take the Staraptor out, but for Infernape it was only possible with the sash, and Hitmonlee wasn't able to take it out at full health with Stone Edge, but as Fred pointed out most teams will only have one Staraptor so with the combined damage of fake out and Stone Edge the Staraptor is down and out. But every other pokemon I sent out against it was taken out before it could even move.

The point is fight is strong against normal, but normal is paired with flying more then any type, and fight has a hell of a time with flying as only one, ingame, will be faster then 100 base speed. I am just hopping that the balance crew finds a solution to this "problem"

[Shadowfred]

First, it's Shadowfred, no capital F. Second, Hitmonlee only failed to kill a single Staraptor with Stone Edge, for all we know, that could have been the exact minimum of possible damage and considering it was left with 3 hp, that's not too shabby. Third, this is unlikely to be "fixed" as we're not balancing for monotype, we're balancing to pokemon in general. If it turns out that Staraptor is killing every goddamned pokemon then sure, we'll fix it.

[Mr. Fox]

sorry for messing up your name. I am not complaining in any way, or trying to make your guys job any harder then it is already going to be.

The Hitmonlee wasn't running an Adamant nature, if he had been it would have been a sure OHKO, and as I said last post with the combined damage from Fake Out and Stone Edge it is a sure OHKO every time. You could probably even get away with using High Jump Kick to take it out if you wanted to. And as you pointed out in our little test battle people tend only to use one of a pokemon. So once you take it out, no problem. My problem is that the High Attack Low speed pokemon lost their priory  moves causing them to lose the ability to come in and get those little revenge kills they used to be able to,and there is only 2 pokemon faster then 100 base speed, Infernape and Mienshao. But most Staraptors are scarfed negating that speed advantage unless they themselves are scarfed or are running a sash set. I just want to see a few more fight pokemon get a speed boost, or a few of the slower ones get some sort of priory. I just want it to be fair and not tilted towards who ever has the most speed.

[Roloc]

........... I just want it to be fair .....................

Thats the problem. Everyone thinks things are OP so they run off to QQ(I am not saying you did) about it. If they really think something is unbalanced they need to post about it and give some well thought and good information telling why and even give some examples of why they think it is unbalanced. As shadowfred has said, they are not balancing around monotype teams. Yes your fighting team will have a heal of a time with fast flyers...and thats your fault for being mono fighting. I have the same problem with fast flyers.
I would like to point out that even though a yanmega can almost completely sweep my team by itself I do NOT think it is unbalanced. I thought out some plans and came up with several ways that I can now beat it without a problem.

But this is something we as monotype trainers are going to have to deal with.

we're not balancing for monotype, we're balancing to pokemon in general.

Deal with it.

[Mr. Fox]

Lol Roloc. I don't cry over stupid stuff like this. Damn I would like to see pokemon like Primeape become top tier threats, I just like the idea of having a crazy monkey on my team. I mean the Balance team is doing a wonderful job, Furret is a monster with Quiver Dance and a life orb. I just want them to finish balancing fight so I can eat my words and really enjoy kicking mono flying teams butts.

[Roloc]

Lol Roloc. I don't cry over stupid stuff like this. Damn I would like to see pokemon like Primeape become top tier threats, I just like the idea of having a crazy monkey on my team. I mean the Balance team is doing a wonderful job, Furret is a monster with Quiver Dance and a life orb. I just want them to finish balancing fight so I can eat my words and really enjoy kicking mono flying teams butts.

Wow I even put it in a bigger font and you still didn't see it.
Perhaps it needs to be bigger lol

........... I just want it to be fair .....................

Thats the problem. Everyone thinks things are OP so they run off to QQ(I am not saying you did) about it. If they really think something is unbalanced they need to post about it and give some well thought and good information telling why and even give some examples of why they think it is unbalanced. As shadowfred has said, they are not balancing around monotype teams. Yes your fighting team will have a heal of a time with fast flyers...and thats your fault for being mono fighting. I have the same problem with fast flyers.
I would like to point out that even though a yanmega can almost completely sweep my team by itself I do NOT think it is unbalanced. I thought out some plans and came up with several ways that I can now beat it without a problem.

But this is something we as monotype trainers are going to have to deal with.

we're not balancing for monotype, we're balancing to pokemon in general.

Deal with it.

[Mr. Fox]

I was saying only an idiot would cry over something that stupid. I am more mature then to cry over a birdy that is faster then me. 

[zylonnick]

Most people tend to put a LO (or CB) on Staraptor , so it can Roost off damage when they are able to and want to switch moves when necessary. Just pointing that out. Most fghting types have already been balanced or are in testing, and I don't see a faster fighting type coming around. Maybe it's necessary for some future fighting type to get more speed, but don't expect too much from it.

The only fighting types that haven't been discussed yet are Hitmonchan, Hitmontop, Throh, Sawk and Mienshao so again, it might happen, but probably not.

[Mr. Fox]

So? Even wit out a scarf it still has a base speed of 100 and only two in game fight type, not including a unburden hitmonlee, will be able to out run it.

Come on! I mean I might not have made balance, but I do know that fight is going to be an underwhelming type.

Edit: Sure it might encourage the usage of other, formerly weaker pokemon, but lets not destroy what made the type great.

[zylonnick]

So? Even wit out a scarf it still has a base speed of 100 and only two in game fight type, not including a unburden hitmonlee, will be able to out run it.

Come on! I mean I might not have made balance, but I do know that fight is going to be an underwhelming type.

Underwelming? You're calling 1 of the best offensive types (with only 2 weaknesses) underwelming while several of them got a boost and only a couple like Roobushin and Macham (I think that's it) p got a nerf. Seriously, underwelming? Then why do you train fighting types?

[Mr. Fox]

Because no matter what happens to fight I will always be loyal to it. It has some of my favorite pokemon in it and I just like its offensive prowess.

Yes underwhelming. Take a look at those two weakness after their buffs. Most of them are faster then most fight types, only two fight pokemon are over 100 base speed, and those that are faster are able to simply cripple the slower fighters. Even if they aren't faster they have the ability to either make them slower or make their attacks do nothing by buffing their stats. Flying has Togekiss, with enough bulk to make sure that it gets a T-Wave off it can just abuse Para-flinching. Psychic hits fight on its weak underbelly. Most fights have less then impressive SpDef stats so one hit usually kos them.

I don't know about you but I really pay attention to base stats and Psychic and flying have some of the fastest sweepers around that just destroy any fight type that gets in their way. Yes Fight has Scrafty to deal with Psychic, but any good psychic player runs around with a fight type move somewhere in their sets. And Scrafty has no way to boost its special defense against a special sweeper that is built to tear holes with its special attack! Just look at the statistics. To be able to outrun most of the fight type you need just 90 base speed. There are four fight type pokemon with a base speed of over, and I am not counting an unburden Hitmonlee or Speed boost Blaziken as they take time to set up, and how many psychic and flying types have a base speed higher then 90? Or have the bulk to shrug off any attack that a fight pokemon can throw their way?

All I am asking is look at the statistics, watch stats, learn patterns, just watch the damn trends! Every thing follows a pattern, and the Balance team, not complaining, wants to create a balanced meta game where all pokemon are balanced. Well you see an overbearing type like fight and you imediatly think, take their power. Take what makes Fight one of the top tier threats. Then all of a sudden they are struggling to handle their type weaknesses.

Take a look at dark, they fear Fight like the plague. But with the like of Zororark, Honchcrow, Mandibuzz, and Hydreigon they are able to just tear them apart. Bug is/was one of the most under-rated types around, but now they are able to easily check and counter Rock and fire types. Ledian got a massive boost in his speed and attack stats, as well as Spore and Drain Punch. Just look at the trends! The strong types are losing their edge and the weaker types are getting sharpened to a point where the former types are taking their place!

I don't want to make anybody angry, but I notice patterns. And this is one pattern I can't ignore because it is so obvious.