X/Y game play changes and PU Pokemon

[pabloabeytia]

I agree completely with ursaring. The Nerf makes sense and the power of other fairy type moves are decent and don't hit too big unless pixelate hyper voice. Givng normal type a SE wouldn't make sense because normal Types are normal moves so any Pokemon can learn them for the most part. Giving fairy types a huge Nerf that was even more unnecessary. You're looking into disabling fairy types more than actually balancing them, xetroc

[Tickles]

Again, I have a bias, so I know my points don't hold much ground. I would be happy with fairy taking a se from dark. I don't mind dark types taking a se from fairy. Dark types have the true disadvantage. Their fairy counters are easily dispatched. Put it this way, this system, though not a big change, can potentially help with balance. Dragons get a new counter in the form of Hydreigon, fighting types get Scrafty and Pangoro, but even these counters become a double edged sword since fairy would hit them a lot harder. This would mean the larger fairy types, like gardevoir, mawhile and klefki would make a person think twice about using them.

[Roloc]

Sorry, but I HIGHLY doubt there will be any type effectiveness changes. We (PU) want the game to stay as close as possible to the original games. We change whats necessary and making dark SE against Fairy isn't. Fairy isn't OP, it gets taken down easily just like any other type. Sure, some of the fairy pokemon are OP (I'm looking at you florges) and it will be nerfed accordingly. Some will recieve small buffs, like carbink(got rapid spin)

All I can say is that you need to carry coverage moves. Load down with steel and poison attacks on your mono dark team. I have to carry stone edge and EQ on my mono bug team all over. I know it sucks to load down your team with certain attacks, but thats why it's harder to be a mono type trainer. It actually made my mono bug team weak to other pokemon when I carried too many stone edge and EQs, but I found a balance, and so you have to do the same.

Use Bisharp, I tried it out against fairy pokemon and it does pretty well. Stab iron head = OHKO 90% of the time. If something it can't take comes in, then switch it out. Don't let it die. Never let your MVP die too early. Like Heracross for me, most people think scizor is my MVP but I sack it a lot. IT's actaully my go to poke when I need to sack a poke to get a free switch.



Okay, MoonBlast will be changed to:

Moon Blast - 95 base power - 10% chance to reduce enemy special attack by one stage.

It'll be the same as Sludge Wave. If it turns out to still be too powerful, it'll be changed, if it turns out it was too much of a nerf, it'll be changed.
Thanks everyone for their input on moon blast.

[Desbear]

Again, I have a bias, so I know my points don't hold much ground. I would be happy with fairy taking a se from dark. I don't mind dark types taking a se from fairy. Dark types have the true disadvantage. Their fairy counters are easily dispatched. Put it this way, this system, though not a big change, can potentially help with balance. Dragons get a new counter in the form of Hydreigon, fighting types get Scrafty and Pangoro, but even these counters become a double edged sword since fairy would hit them a lot harder. This would mean the larger fairy types, like gardevoir, mawhile and klefki would make a person think twice about using them.

Before going any further, I will admit I have a bias on this subject, but I refuse to not speak. But, however, instead of just saying 'you are wrong!', I will instead point out OTHER counters that fighting and Dark both have, that can be used against fairies to your advantage.



Fighting types definitely have it better off than dark, right off the top of my head, With their Croagunk, Infernape due to its resistance, Lucario and its mega, Emboar, Blaziken and its mega, ANd maybe more!

Dark types, however, have skuntank, Bisharp, drapion, Houndoom, Even greninja if you play your cards right!



And while I could continue on, with more evidence as to why that would be an unnecessary change, Xetroc, it would seem biased, and we both know, so, I now await the judge's verdict... If he's not made one by the time I finish this draft. He probably has, but still. Roloc, your thoughts?

[Tickles]

Ok, I'll lay off on fairies.

[Roloc]

Don't stop contributing to discussions though. All input is welcomed and wanted.

[Yume Tsuki]

Speaking of which, a majority of all psychic types now have Dazzling Gleam in their move pool. Which is quite a big change for dark-type users, who first had no fear to send their pokémon out against a psychic type. Only a few used fighting-type attacks. But now the large majority of Psychic types learns Dazzling Gleam, making it harder to counter with a Dark-type pokémon, giving Bug- and Ghost types a more likely option against Psychic types. Quite frustrating when most of the psychic types are already Special Sweepers.

[Roloc]

While it is true that a lot of psychic pokes gained coverage against dark types with dazzling gleam, most of them already had coverage via signal beam or focus blast/ hidden power fighting. I don't see this making that big of an impact since dazzling gleam is only 80 power and non stab. Most dark types will take the hit and ohko in return with stab dark.

Signal beam 75 base power
Focus blast 120 base power
Hidden power fighting 70 base power
Dazzling gleam 80 base power

[Ursaring]

You could also say by the same coin that psychics are not true counters to fighting types since most fighting types learn a dark move of some sort. Most psychics have very low defense ,and will still be taken out by a sucker punch. Dark types definitely beat  psychics still ,they just happened to get something more accurate than focus blast to deal with dark.

[Ursaring]

Sorry to double post ,but I decided I wanted to shift the conversation a bit and talk about the new attacks. Some of the new attacks are very interesting ,but just do not give good rewards for their risk.

Fell stinger- 30bp and raises attack 2 stages if this move faints something. This is a cool concept ,but why use it when 30bp is horrible and metal claw is better in just about every way. I think the number of stages it raises should be increased ,or the bp needs to be raised. It is a really cool move though.

Powder- If the target uses a fire type move the move explodes and the move fails to go of and damages the pokemon who used the fire move for 25% of their health. 
This move is also really cool ,but is very high risk with a pretty low reward. If your opponent does not use a fire move that turn this move   did nothing and they got a free turn. If they did use a fire move they only lost 25% of their hp. I think the % should get boosted to make this move worth its risk.

Zen headbutt- I know this is not a X/Y move ,but I think its accuracy should be 100%. Crunch has 80 BP with a chance to lower defence. Psycho cut and night slash have 70 BP but a increased crit chance. You could definitely say crunch=zen HB night slash=psycho cut ,but zens accuracy is 90%? Iron head also has 80 BP, 30% flinch rate ,and perfect accuracy. I think the accuracy on Zen should be boosted to match its different type clones.

Many of the other X/Y moves are pretty useless ,but useless moves need to exist. I just thought those 2 should get a little love. 

[Tickles]

While we're on this subject, two new status moves that are really interesting seem to have too few pokes capable odd using them

Parting shot- Lowers the targets attack and special attack, while simultaneously switching out.

Topsy-Turvey : reverses all stat changes on the target.

Each move belongs to a different dark type, but it's not seen anywhere else. Maybe increasing the amount of pokes that can use these moves would be nice. Maybe not pranksters, but either bulky status abusers or fast trap layers could benefit from these.


Edit: No more posting from my phone. Auto correct just hates me.

[pabloabeytia]

Also Chatter (specifically chatot), Dynamic punch+no guard users.  Chatot is pretty decent all around and has flying/normal which is most of the time not the most covered typing speaking competitively.  If the speedy little turd gets to set up, he practically has the game with a nasty plot+chatter+boomburst set.  Also the fact that Chatter can ohko and make a pokemon confused if it does not is a scary concept.  what are your thoughts?

[Roloc]

Fell stinger - This attack is almost useless. I've seen people use it and actually get the +2 then die next turn. Terrible move. Needs a change

Powder - I've been thinking about this move too, I've been thinking that the damage will be upped to 35 - 50% and when used, it lasts untill they use a fire attack. This way when powder is used, it almost makes them never to use a fire attack.

Zen headbutt - This is so true with many attacks. Rock slide, Air slash, etc.

Parting shot - I can see other pokemon getting this move. There are lots of gen 6 moves that old gen pokes didn't get yet.

Topsy-Turvey - This move is extremely powerful, it will NOT be seen on very many pokemon, and no way what so ever will is be on any prankster.

[Roloc]

Rock slide makes since. Rock moves all have imperfect accuracy for the most part. Zeb headbutt just doesn't make since having imperfect accuracy.

Powder working till triggered would be pretty op. Maybe till the enemy switches like confuse ray.


On my phone sorry for silly mistakes

Well thats what I meant about powder. IT would stay active untill they switched or untill a fire move is used.

Rock slide doesn't make sense. It's 75 damage with flinch chance and 90% accuracy. There are far more powerful moves that have higher damage and greater effects but still have higher accuracy.


On another note

With the changes to crit chance in the pokemon games, there are three pokemon in PU that will be able to crit 100% of the time. Farfetch'd, Murkrow, and Absol. There are others but I didnt feel like listing them all.

[Desbear]

I didn't notice that myself, Roloc. But that's actually pretty cool.

Question though, what's the new crit system? I know that Farfetch'd had, what, a 70%? Back before hand, but I didn't know the crit chance had changed.  Does Farfecth'd still need his stick? Or can he just use super luck? Because that would be a huge boost to normal types. Another question I have is, will we stick to the old crit chance, or the new one? Because that could either be very good or bad, you know? Sorry if I'm not really contributing, but kinda trying to stir up discussion and what not.

Also, I know a long time ago it was suggested that Rock slide have 100% accuracy, and a good amount of people agreed. DOn't remember if the flinch chance was removed, but I do remember that it never came to fruition due to lack of backing(I think?).