[Wii] SSB: BRAWL

[Level5Pidgey]

Camping in brawl isn't that hard to beat X(. All You reall need to do is dodge whatever their first attack is, and then it just turns into normal brawl, because the only advantage the camper had is now lost.

By the time you dodge it, they'll have easily made another. Try again. You usally need to take a platform route and spot dodge/powershield a few.

And Edge-hogging? How is THAT any better than camping? Because the tournyfags that invented the teir list said so? And as for chain grabs, all you have to do is do a midair recovery, or a sidestep. Or better yet... DON'T let him grab you.

Edge hogging, as in like, preventing a character from recovering to get the KO?
As in, a perfectly valid way to ensure a well set-up KO?
I don't mean ledge stalling/planking.

And you're kinda showing your lack of knowledge about chain grabs here. A chain grab cannot be sidestepped or midair recovered, otherwise it's not a chain grab. I'm not talking "Oh no he grabbed me, threw me, and then when I tried to hit him again he grabbed me again!", I'm talking, Pikachu 0-deathing Fox. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=diRdJicrvYE
More often than not, chain grabs don't continue past a certain percent where it can be di'd out of (Official tournament rules state that a character must give up their infinite chain past 300%), or, depending on map geometry.
Dedede's down throw for example isn't banned due to the fact that it will finish as the character moves off the ledge - this is precisely why Bridge of Eldin and Shadow Moses are banned. 

Also your of "Just don't let him grab you!" is flawed.
What a stupid idea. Due to the shield mechanics in the game, most approaches and attacks can result in a grab depending on the strategies, characters and players at hand - and just a little luck.
 
Let me guess, if Marth had a 2x range, rapid fire OHKO sword jab, you'd say "Just don't let him get near you"?
Yeah okay.

As for bridge of Elden's blast zone... Dude, If you can't evade that thing, I'm sorry, but you're just plain Special. You have like a thirty second warning that it's coming, and there are bold lines indicating what the affected zone is.

Ummm. LOL.
Learn what a blast zone is dude.
A blast zone isn't where the bomb lands on the bridge. It's the outer limits of the level that if you pass over, you are KO'd. For example, the upper blast zone is what makes a star KO. When people fall off the stage, they die in the lower blast zone.

For camping in general:
Just don't go to where the camper is >.< Simple, no?

Funny, coming from someone who plays Marth.
Your strategy for dealing with campy projectile users is, don't go near them?

... strange.

[JohnnyXtreme]

I'll be on from now to probaly around 6 or 7 central time.

[Frenchfry]

Ummm. LOL.
Learn what a blast zone is dude.
A blast zone isn't where the bomb lands on the bridge. It's the outer limits of the level that if you pass over, you are KO'd. For example, the upper blast zone is what makes a star KO. When people fall off the stage, they die in the lower blast zone.

Well, excuse me, but I don't look up all the terms of brawl. I kinda just play the game. You know... like what a game is MEANT for? They die when they leave the screen. I didn't know what the word is for off the screen, mostly because that knowledge has exactly ZERO effect on my perfomance and enjoyment of the game.
And since you were so kind as to point this out for me, lemme go ahead and make a point. If people are alright with banning characters, stages, and even MOVES of some characters, then how come it's not banned to camp at the fringes of the stage? Maybe instead of banning the stage, you should ban what you consider the 'cheap' tactic to be.

And you're kinda showing your lack of knowledge about chain grabs here. A chain grab cannot be sidestepped or midair recovered, otherwise it's not a chain grab. I'm not talking "Oh no he grabbed me, threw me, and then when I tried to hit him again he grabbed me again!", I'm talking, Pikachu 0-deathing Fox. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=diRdJicrvYE
More often than not, chain grabs don't continue past a certain percent where it can be di'd out of (Official tournament rules state that a character must give up their infinite chain past 300%), or, depending on map geometry.
Dedede's down throw for example isn't banned due to the fact that it will finish as the character moves off the ledge - this is precisely why Bridge of Eldin and Shadow Moses are banned. 

Also your of "Just don't let him grab you!" is flawed.
What a stupid idea. Due to the shield mechanics in the game, most approaches and attacks can result in a grab depending on the strategies, characters and players at hand - and just a little luck.
 
Let me guess, if Marth had a 2x range, rapid fire OHKO sword jab, you'd say "Just don't let him get near you"?
Yeah okay. 

1) Nothing in brawl is inescapable. Maybe you can get in two or three consecutive throws, but after the accumulated damage comes to about what would come from a charged smash attack, they fly just a little too far for another grab. Combined with the tiny range of time you have to grab them between them hitting the wall and hitting the ground, it really isn't that unfair. And you can't really ban any stage it can be performed on, because then you're banning everything except perfectly flat stages with no walls whatsoever. Oh- wait! You banned all of those except Final Destination.

2) Oh, yes. Such a stupid idea. "Hey, that guy is spamming his throws like nobody's business! I better not JUMP BACKWARDS WHEN HE GETS CLOSE! That would prevent him from grabbing me, which is a stupid idea!"
But seriously, dude. you can't just call an idea stupid, unless it's something along the lines of "HAY GAIZ LETS CRASH PLANES INTO BUILDINGS." It's condensending, antisocial, and it really makes you look like an asshole if it turns out to actually be a good idea.

3) Grabs are instant KO's? I never knew!

By the time you dodge it, they'll have easily made another. Try again. You usally need to take a platform route and spot dodge/powershield a few.

made another... what? Attack? If so, the camping factor didn't really affect his ability to anticipate you dodging an attack. If not, please be a touch more specific.

Funny, coming from someone who plays Marth.
Your strategy for dealing with campy projectile users is, don't go near them?

... strange.

See, it works for me because I don't play on perfectly flat stages, so there ARE ACTUALLY SPOTS ON THE STAGE PROJECTILES CAN'T REACH.
Oh, final destination isn't perfectly even for all characters, is it? It gives a pretty big advantage to campers with projectiles.

[Level5Pidgey]

Well, excuse me, but I don't look up all the terms of brawl. I kinda just play the game. You know... like what a game is MEANT for? They die when they leave the screen. I didn't know what the word is for off the screen, mostly because that knowledge has exactly ZERO effect on my perfomance and enjoyment of the game.

Yeah, okay.
Posing yourself as an anti-intellectual is just showing how bad you probably are at the game.

Riddle me this, Fry.
How would you think Bridge and Hyrule are good competitive maps if you've ever been to a tournament where they're obviously banned?

/thread.
You've never been to a tournament.

And since you were so kind as to point this out for me, lemme go ahead and make a point. If people are alright with banning characters, stages, and even MOVES of some characters, then how come it's not banned to camp at the fringes of the stage? Maybe instead of banning the stage, you should ban what you consider the 'cheap' tactic to be.

There are several rules that do try to ban these tactics in various tournament rulesets, but, when it comes down to it, the combination of ALL the chaingrabbing, camping strategies with such simple walk-off blast zones with each individual character... it's easier to just ban the map... it's not like you're losing much with such a bad map anyway.

1) Nothing in brawl is inescapable. Maybe you can get in two or three consecutive throws, but after the accumulated damage comes to about what would come from a charged smash attack, they fly just a little too far for another grab. Combined with the tiny range of time you have to grab them between them hitting the wall and hitting the ground, it really isn't that unfair. And you can't really ban any stage it can be performed on, because then you're banning everything except perfectly flat stages with no walls whatsoever. Oh- wait! You banned all of those except Final Destination.

When there are high walls such as in Shadow Moses, there are infinites. They are inescapable.
All the time.
Keep up with me here.

And yes, there are things in Brawl that are inescapable until a certain percent. Did you see the video with Pikachu and Fox? Fox cannot escape that until the 90s or so with DI (and if he does, Pika has some simple follow up moves), and, he can't hop out of it until he's well over 100.
Losing 100% to a single grab is terrible. It swings the match so far in Pika's favour, it's considered by the best smash players in the world (you know, the ones who have actually been to tournaments and won), to make Pika a Fox counter.

You say that these chains are hard to do.
It's common skill for any old smash player, so if you're having trouble, you're bad.

And, I like how you think I only play FD.
Here are a list of stages that are allowed in tournaments,

Battlefield
Yoshi's Island
Smashville
Lylat Cruise
Pokémon Stadium
Final Destination
Castle Siege
Delfino Plaza
Halberd
Frigate Orpheon
Brinstar
Pictochat
Rainbow Cruise
Pokémon Stadium 2
Jungle Japes
Norfair
Green Greens
Distant Planet
Luigi's Mansion
Pirate Ship
Port Town Aero Dive
Yoshi's Island (Melee)

And I CP a variety of those when a chain-grabber/projectile-spammer picks FD.

2) Oh, yes. Such a stupid idea. "Hey, that guy is spamming his throws like nobody's business! I better not JUMP BACKWARDS WHEN HE GETS CLOSE! That would prevent him from grabbing me, which is a stupid idea!"
But seriously, dude. you can't just call an idea stupid, unless it's something along the lines of "HAY GAIZ LETS CRASH PLANES INTO BUILDINGS." It's condensending, antisocial, and it really makes you look like an asshole if it turns out to actually be a good idea.

If you have to jump backwards every time you have the chance of being grabbed, you're not going to be doing much attacking.
At all.
Because most approaches can be grabbed.

If not being grabbed was such an easy thing to do, why would that aforementioned group of best smash players consider Dedede a strong character, and Pikachu as a counter to Fox? What about IC vs. Gannon?

Surely everyone can just "not be grabbed" rite?

3) Grabs are instant KO's? I never knew!

I was showing a flaw in your logic through analogy.
But with a few matchups, they might as well be, as is the case with Fox and Pika.

made another... what? Attack? If so, the camping factor didn't really affect his ability to anticipate you dodging an attack. If not, please be a touch more specific.

Another projectile.
With camping and projectile spamming, the approacher is often slowed down quite a lot - giving the spammer lots of room and time to exact a counter-offensive.

Camping isn't that easy to beat - and if you do start getting camped then you've put yourself in a bad position. You generally have to stick to your opponent to stop them from getting the positional advantage.

See, it works for me because I don't play on perfectly flat stages, so there ARE ACTUALLY SPOTS ON THE STAGE PROJECTILES CAN'T REACH.
Oh, final destination isn't perfectly even for all characters, is it? It gives a pretty big advantage to campers with projectiles.

Ummm, you were the one suggesting Bridge of Eldin? The flattest stage in the game for the most part?

And yeah, as mentioned before, I CP against FD.

--------------

Look man, all this stuff I've had to explain to you?
Basic competitive Smash that newbies learn in their first few tournaments.
It's pretty obvious you have never been to a tournament - so, I'd drop the charade.

Stop pretending to be so good that you can completely contradict what the highest ranking players in the world have said - as when it comes down to it, their names are up in lights, they make money from winnings - and you're sitting on your computer pretending to be something you're not.

If you want to get better, the first step would be to stop thinking that you know better than everyone else, and stop trying to be an anti-intellectual.
At least learn what stages are played in tournaments.

[Frenchfry]

Yeah, okay noob.
Posing yourself as an anti-intellectual is just showing how bad you are at the game.

Are you kidding me? You actually seriously addressed another human being like this is a serious conversation? My god, I'm done with this. At least when I used to get into stupid arguments with Ghost, he didn't talk like his piss was perfume.
You also never brawled with me, did you? You don't know how good I am. And as far as the hours go, I've had the game since the day was released, so I seriously doubt it.
And using the word NOOB? Seriously? I'm done with this. I'm not arguing with a tournyfag assburger with no social skills whatsoever.

[YouHearThat]

;(....      <- link

[JohnnyXtreme]

Lol, that was funny. Pidgey, tourneyfag = you.

[Level5Pidgey]

Yeah, okay noob.
Posing yourself as an anti-intellectual is just showing how bad you are at the game.

Are you kidding me? You actually seriously addressed another human being like this is a serious conversation? My god, I'm done with this. At least when I used to get into stupid arguments with Ghost, he didn't talk like his piss was perfume.
You also never brawled with me, did you? You don't know how good I am. And as far as the hours go, I've had the game since the day was released, so I seriously doubt it.
And using the word NOOB? Seriously? I'm done with this. I'm not arguing with a tournyfag assburger with no social skills whatsoever.

You were wrong, I pointed it out, and it just so happened that I discovered that you weren't as good as you were talking yourself up to be.

Don't get all butthurt because I called you a noob. We're not sensitive little kids here.
I didn't start crying when you insinuated that I was a mindless player who follows whatever the 'tourneyfags' say, and I didn't complain when you said "If you can't avoid the blast zone you must be special".

And really, I have no illusions about how good I am. I get destroyed in most tourneys I play in. I've never come first in a serious one.
If I was to describe myself as a smash player I'd actually say I'm clumsy in the air, I oversheild and I don't DI well enough.

And I know enough about my current skill level to not say things like "This means that you all have a chance to brawl with a god. Anyone who needs a good ass whoppin' handed to them", call people "tourneyfags" and pretend that "I have a tournament in like 5 mins".

Don't talk yourself up if you can't deliver.

Also I play Ness/Mario, I'm not sure if that disqualifies me as a tourneyfag or not.

[Frenchfry]

*Is done with this*
Dude, seriously. I'm trying to end a retarded catfight, and you're pressing it. Just stop.
And, guess what? I am allowed to joke around when I'm in a friendly enviroment. I ditched all assumptions about my skill compared to everyone else's as soon as the retard fight broke out. Apparently you decided you didn't have to.

[Level5Pidgey]

*Is done with this*
Dude, seriously. I'm trying to end a retarded catfight, and you're pressing it. Just stop.
And, guess what? I am allowed to joke around when I'm in a friendly enviroment. I ditched all assumptions about my skill compared to everyone else's as soon as the retard fight broke out. Apparently you decided you didn't have to.

Okay then, little smash feud over.
If you ever need to know anything to do with tourney legality or anything like that just yell.

Speaking of which, we should totally have a "What's your fav char" thing just so everyone can get to know the other peeps.

My fav: Ness, Mario, though I play a bit of everyone.
My Melee favs: Samus, Dr. Mario, Pichu.

I miss the little guy D:

[Frenchfry]

Meh, I don't think I'll ever really go out of my way to enter a tourny that has anything besides items banned, seeing as how much I dissagree with it.

My brawl characters would be: Marth, Jigglypuff*, Wolf*, and Snake.
In melee: Mewtwo, Pichu*, and Roy.

*I actually suck as these guys. They're just fun to play as. D:

[DarK_SouL]

Dr. Mario was in Melee! I've wanted to get it... I have Brawl but I played Melee somewhere and it is fun too.

Brawl: Lucario (Shocking isn't it!), Snake, Sonic, and Meta Knight.

[Silver]

Melee: Samus, Roy, Marth, Fox, Falco
Brawl: Lucas, Ness, Wolf, Falco, Ike, Ganondorf (for teh lulz; almost everything he does is directed towards your face)

[JohnnyXtreme]

Melee:Falco,Luigi,Roy and Ice Climbers
Brawl:Mr. Game and Watch,Ganondorf, Luigi, and Ness/Lucas(I try to avoid online with them though, because y'know, PK Thunder and lag don't go well together)

[LeoReborn]

Grr.......I need to BRAWL!!!!! I cant do Basic Brawl, keeps kicking me out.