playable characters

[bako_neko_tokyo]

hi im sorry if a suggestion like this has already been posted, i have only just joined the forums and I am wondering, In all the pokemon games so far you have only been able to play as a good trainer, is it possible to play as, e.g a team rocket member?
i've always thought it would pretty cool if you could pick sides in pokemon

[Frenchfry]

there will be no explicit karma system, and you probably won't be able to "join" team rocket, per say. There WILL be the option to choose between heinous and holy acts in certain quests, if I remember correctly.

[Jerry]

Indeed, just that you won't know which one you chose until later.

[genbor]

I believe I have seen something similar or the same topic being posted on the forums, but I won't blame you for this (since I'm also having a Survival-of-the-Fittest type of relationship with the search bars on forums).

 To be honest, I'm quite fond of the idea of having a Crime Organization similar to Team Rocket, of which players could join in. There are a few arguments against it though, mainly how it would give rise to Griefing (let's call it bullying for now if you don't already know the meaning), which is something games try to avoid.
 
 In my opinion, with careful planning, it could work. To give a few examples for now:

 - Team Crime (let's call it that for now) members are able to attack any player they want, but it comes at a risk: If you as a Team Crime member would attack someone, you risk that the police will catch you.

 - The police would come if there are "unmarked" people in the area, who see what you are doing. By "unmarked" I mean people with whom you are not dealing with. So you probably wouldn't attack a person when he is in a crowd. However, if there are more Team Crime members with you, you can complete the robbing by each member "marking" a player.
     -> Here's an example: 1 TC(Team Crime) 2 NP (Normal Player) = 1 "unmarked" player doesn't have his hands full and can therefore call the police.
     -> Example 2: 2 TC and 2 NP = Both players are "marked" so they don't have time to call the police.

- If you are caught by the Police, it could make a "faint" scenario (when all your Pokémon faint, you get transported to the Pokémon Center (PC), and you are standing outside it with fully healed Pokémon). but instead of a PC, they would be transported to the Police Department (PD) where you are standing outside it, your money is decreased considerably (paying a fine), and your stolen items are taken away.

- Next, the time it would take for the Police to arrive. The closer you are to a city, the faster they reach you. (In a city you automatically get busted, unless you are able to catch a guy in an alley where he is alone) So outside the city, I would propose something like, 3+X-Y/2 Turns outside the city. 3 base turns, and a modifier which depends on the surrounding and circumstances. Routes add + 1  (if there are two routes between you and a city thats +2 Turns), Caves, Forests, places that are harder to approach gain a +2 bonus etc., The more "unmarked" (witnesses) there are, the police will Prioritize the case a little bit more, and send help sooner; but same goes for the other side: the more Team Crime (lookouts) there are, the harder it will be for the Police to catch you unawares.
   -> Example 1: 1 TC + 3 NP, Cave scenario ( 3(base) + 2(cave) - 1 (2 unmarked NP [2/2])= 4 Turns before Police catches you.
   -> Example 2: 3 TC + 1 NP, Route Scenario ( 3(base) + 2 (route +1 and 2 NP another +1) - 0(unmakred)= 5 Turns before Police catches you.
   -> Example 3: 1 TC + 1 NP, [this time place doesn't matter] ( The Police won't be called on you)

- However, even if you there are only "marked" players, you still have a chance of being caught by the police (random) since they might be patrolling the area. That would mean there's always a certain weight to attacking another player, which might prevent Griefing.

- Next is the reward: debatable... something that is worth the risk. (I'm against Pokémon stealing)

 Well that's just a few things that can be pointed out in favor of a Team Crime organization. Like I said, it is highly improbable that such a thing will be created, but if there will be one, my proposal is always here as a reference. It can serve as a base both for Cons, and for Pros, however it all comes down to the Developers.

PS: I understand this is a bit hard to understand at first, and might require you to reread it a few times to finally understand it(if it can be understood at all). I'm also well aware of the fact that this is just a proposal written in haste and that in can be improved, but that's what the forum is for eh?
PSS: Thanks for inspiring me. When I saw your post it had me thinking, and this is the result
                                                                                              Cheers, Genbor

[Wire]

I don;t think many peopel want to be confined to cops or robbers until they have played the game long enough travelling to all the gyms etc.

[LeoReborn]

Genbor, it's about whether it would work or not, it's that the team isn't extending 'karma' beyond quest options.

Possibly for these reasons:

-How would you feel if you got robbed?
-TC: You are obligated to rob people, IE, you have no say as to whether you will or not.
-What is there to gain from robbing? You get money anyhow...

-Finally, 'Robbing' would essentialy be "Player-Killing", just Pokemon-Style

[genbor]

I understand what you mean, that is why I pointed out a planned system, where it wouldn't get overwhelming. It's not about what's the point of being a criminal for the sake of money, it's more about the fact that some people find it fun to play as the bad guy. (Personally I don't)

-How would you feel if you got robbed?
-TC: You are obligated to rob people, IE, you have no say as to whether you will or not.
-What is there to gain from robbing? You get money anyhow...

-Finally, 'Robbing' would essentialy be "Player-Killing", just Pokemon-Style

1.) Robbing would require a duel between the player and the robber. The victim is actually in a better position, since the the robber will have an offensive tactic (he wants to finish quickly before Police arrives) while the victim has to either defeat his opponent, or stall. There are many ways to stall a fight for many turns with one Pokemon, if he wants the Police to deal with the robber instead. You shouldn't expect everything to go your way in the wild. If you want to avoid being robbed, best option is to travel in big groups.

2.) First of all, if we go by the standard Pokemon rules, if you meet another player's eyes, you duel. Just like you said, you have no choice whatsoever, unless you evade meeting eyes. Why can't it be zo with robbing, which is basically a duel with a new twist? You get money at the end of the duel; if you lose you go to PC... But anyways, just like the dueling system won't require you to duel every person you meet, why oild you be obliged to rob anyone you meet? What kind of idiot would rob someone when he will be caught as soon as he tries it? Deciding to rob someone would be the luxury of the criminal, so he is able to choose.

Like I said before, it can be the same as dueling that adds a thrill to it which might be appealing to some players, appealing enough to choose to be a Team X member. So it really is more for the thrill then for the gain. But since it is riskier, the coin rewarded would be much higher since he "robbed" someone. If you read my plan carefully you should understand that robbing someone isn't as easy as it sounds, so there isn't a high chance of being Griefed.

I don;t think many peopel want to be confined to cops or robbers until they have played the game long enough travelling to all the gyms etc.

I seriously don't recall ever confining people to "robbers and cops". In fact, I never even considered of a player becoming  a Police officer.

I hope I was clear enough this time.

                                                                  Cheers, Ggenbor

I don;t think many peopel want to be confined to cops or robbers until they have played the game long enough travelling to all the gyms etc.

[Jerry]

Okay, nice system indeed, I'm just confused about the last example you gave, where you said that the police won't be called on you. Where would that happen?

And maybe an idea that I think would suit, is to make the 'excess' TC battle the police, so that it gives some more time for the TC members, otherwise, I don't really see the point in moving in excessively large groups. Let's say the police first come as one (the first informed) then if that police encounters problem (TC battling hence blocking the way), reinforcements come some time later.

One thing I think where a flaw might lie, though is that this is less of a turn based system with that (it isn't anyway very realistic with the number of turns as compared to the time a battle is held). Hence, I think that maybe add, to this idea, a time restraint; like each player has got 1 minute to choose a move and attack, and in multiples of 1 minute, police NPCs will do what they have to do. Anyway, there will be something like timeouts for choosing moves, because it can happen that an player gets disconnected from the server and TC attacks will just be a special case.

[genbor]

 I meant it that since there are no NP who are able to call the police, the Police obviously wouldn't be coming. I also said that even if the Police don't get a call, they could still come since they do patrol (it would be random though).

 Sure that could work, but the Police would have to subdue all of the TC members to arrest them all. If even one remains (which means TC won) then I don't think that the other "captured" TC members should be deported to PD.

 About that flaw... I was just trying to give an example of how it might look like. I know it is unrealistic, but I quite like your idea of having a timer (which stops while choosing a move). The only problem with that one would be that it is much harder to defeat your opponent in 3+/-X Turns than in 1 minute or more. Of course, I did make a system which basically took the side of the victim, since when robbing, everything seems against you. Your idea might be better though, since it would give more time for the TCs.

 To be honest, I first hadn't considered a battle taking place between Police and TC. I first imagined it as a Text running during the battle: Police has arrived! (or Drop your Pokéballs! )
 Anyways I was also thinking of giving the option of Fleeing to the TC member only, and not the victim, since this is not a Duel, which would give the option for the TC member to gamble: save his skin, or win it with a last move...
                                                             Cheers, Genbor

[zylonnick]

nicely explained by genbor and I really like it, but maybe a member of the PU-team might evaluate this too.

[Jerry]

Hm.. and that third example as compared to the first? The NP is not able to call the police there too, and I guessed that the police come because of the battle/crime taking place in a route, but the third one were no indication whatsoever.

Oh, I didn't remove your idea of turns at all, it's just that it's even harder than before!

3 turns here would be equivalent to 3*60 = 180 seconds = 3 mins. So TC has 3 mins in case you mentioned 3 turns and so on.

[EDIT: Wrong number. Changed 120 sec to 180 sec]

Now, the police won't know if the people blocking him are from TC, because they aren't doing anything wrong, but just challenging someone, just like a usual trainer would do and challenging someone for a battle is not a crime, and the police is an NPC, so who would care, but the victim?

Okay, another scenario: Cave 3 TC; 1 NP

From your formula, police will come (without any external events like patrol considered) in [3 (base) + 1 (1 route) + 2 (cave) + 2 (TC > NP) - 0 (unmarked)]/2 = 4 turns (which is equivalent to 4 minutes)

4 minutes now passed and the battle is not over, a policeman comes. Same rules for turn/time is applied. Policeman gets reinforcements (they arrive: 1 in first min, 2 in second min, 4 in 3rd min, 8 in 4th min, etc) and battle the two. Say the first battle takes 3 turns (3 min). During this time, you have already 1+2 more policeman, which the last TC has to deal with.

So after 5 min, you will have 1 TC v/s NP (5 min), 1 TC v/s Police (1 min) and 1 TC v/s Police (just started)
After 6 min, 1 TC v/s NP (6 min), 1 TC v/s Police (2 min) and 1 TC v/s Police (1 min) + 2 Policeman who can get to the NP, if the other TC are still battling.

6 turns should be, in this case, the smallest amount of turns so that the TC committing the crime doesn't get caught.

EDIT: And of course the flee option should be there, otherwise it's no more a crime

[zylonnick]

3 turns here would be equivalent to 3*60 = 120 seconds = 3 mins.

3*60 is 180...

[Jerry]

Oops, I typed the wrong number, but 180 is indeed 3 minutes XD

That's what happens when I'm multitasking

[zylonnick]

you were way ahead of me, so it's normal you make small mistakes like that

[genbor]

 Hmm, I'm starting to like you more and more Jerry

3 turns here would be equivalent to 3*60 = 120 seconds = 3 mins.

 I first assumed a Turn's time is not specified, but that it consists of the exchange of Attacks from both sides (Nidoking used Earthquake! + Lucario used... etc.) which in my opinion would take less time than a whole minute. Of course I believe a timer should be set, so the stalemate doesn't continue indefinitely like in Pokémon Online, just because of connection problems; and that's why I assumed you meant to exchange the Turns to a set Time.

Hm.. and that third example as compared to the first? The NP is not able to call the police there too, and I guessed that the police come because of the battle/crime taking place in a route, but the third one were no indication whatsoever.

 No, in the first example, there are more NPs than TCs, so the police comes because of the presence of "unmarked" players. The place where the battle is taking place, is just a sort of "conductor" for the Police to come. Just like metal conducts electricity well, so can a Police officer travel faster on a well built road (and that's what I meant by Route). On the other hand, rubber is a bad conductor, so since it is harder to climb a mountain, find your way in a forest/cave etc., the police comes a little bit later. I made them into +2 unlike a Route, is because the Police would have to travel on the Route first, then travel to the forest, mountain, cave etc. So just consider it the same thing as the Police needing to Travel on 2 Routes (Route 1 + Route 2 time [1+1] before he gets to the scene.

From your formula, police will come (without any external events like patrol considered) in [3 (base) + 1 (1 route) + 2 (cave) + 2 (TC > NP) - 0 (unmarked)]/2 = 4 turns (which is equivalent to 4 minutes)

Formula: 3+X+Y/2 where X stands for area bonus, and Y stands for the TC/NP factor. So that is why there are no bonus factors when the TC, NP ratio is even. 3 TC 3 NP (3 - 3= 0; 0/2=0)

 So with my formula it would be more like 3(base) + 2(cave [like I said, the +2 includes the Route already) +1 ( 2 TC - 0 NP = 2 TC divided by 2 at the end [2/2] which would result in (3+2+1 =) 6 Turns. BUT! that would also mean that the Police wouldn't come at all IF we disregard the external event (Police Patrol [random]) since there was no NP left to call for the Police.

In a sense by your statement of "6 turns should be, in this case, the smallest amount of turns so that the TC committing the crime doesn't get caught." the TC member does get those 6 turns.

 Reverse scenario but with Routes:
- The Police officer is given a call from 2 NPs to come and help. She (Jenny) is currently in City X and the crime is taking place on Route 103. To get there she has to cross through Route 101 and 102.
 Route 103, 1 TC; 3 NP

3(base) + 2 (2 routes to travel across) - 1 (2 people called; that divided by 2 [2/2 = 1]) = 5 Turns before she gets there.

Of course, the robbery is not tied down to the Turns. That's just an option for the TC member to take. If he defeats his victim before he would get caught, he can just escape with the loot no problem.

I would also take this chance to state that if the TC finish the move before police gets there, that still doesn't mean he can stay on the map. That would result in him staying on the scene of the crime and be caught red-handed. So I would propose that the TC would have to change map (Going to Route 103 from 102, etc.) before he "gets away from the Police". After that, he can return to Route 102 where he committed the crime a few seconds ago, and sort of "refresh" his status on that map.
 Example: If he stays on map, he is still marked "Hostile" and Police can catch him, even though he finished before they got there. So if he changes location and comes back, his status would revert back to "Neutral", and Police wouldn't touch him.

 I would also say that once a crime is committed on one map, another crime cannot be committed on that map for a short amount of time (since Police is there investigating and such).
 This can prevent TCs ganking on a poor victim over and over again.

 Also, I think a Bounty system would be nice as well with it. So if the victim wins, He can turn in the TC member for the Bounty on his head (which is dependent on how many robberies the TC member committed without getting caught).
                                                                    Cheers, Genbor

PS: I love debating, especially when both sides know what they are talking about

EDIT: Hmm I made a mistake... in the Reverse Scenario the area bonus is +3 not +2, but the answer stays.

 This is because I included the city as another map that has to be traveled by the Police to get to the crime, even though the city is the point of origin from where the Police starts from. That is why Routes right next to the city get a +1 bonus.
 (I know there should be a +1 for the current map the crime is on, since the police would have to go there, but I only counted maps that had to be traveled across completely into the bonus.)