PvP battles, please make them fun....

[Gingimon]

yeah that makes more sense, you shouldnt benefit from having more pokemon in your party, and it would make most sense to just allow like 1, or better none at all

[Kuhns]

In any Game of pokemon there are certain things that just make tournaments gay, and any PvP for that matter.
I know i asked about this in chat 1 day but im gonna make a bigger deal about this.
In a PvP battle(we aren't talking about NPC's so chill questers) you should not be allowed to use potions, full heals, any battle items, nothing. It is how the game is made if you ever battled a friend on gen1, (I think for 2-4 too) and it will be gay, tedious, and just not very poke-ish to let this occur. so im extremely pleased that there are no legendaries because for obvious reasons, but there also should be no items(hold items are allowed) in PvP.

Loved how you used the word gay to describe something you didn't like. 

I think there shouldn't be a limit on the amount of items allowed to be used in a PvP battle. It happens all the time in battles against NPCs, of course it's not being used against the player so its not considered 'not fun.'

Besides, when the opponent uses a item or something (that isn't held by the Pokemon) the other trainer is usually given two turns to attack before the item-user can.

If something limiting items is implemented in PvP battles (any battle in fact), it should be based on level and not on number of items used. An 'item' stat for the player, giving a skill number to item uses, which gives the chance that the item used will fail.

So if a level 13 (something low) player uses a Full Restore (instead of something for lower leveled players like...a Potion) there's a--high--chance that it'll fail. Or, despite the fact that the player is a high level with a good item stat, the more times the item(s) are used, the higher the chance for the item to fail rises.

[Dellancher]

If something limiting items is implemented in PvP battles (any battle in fact), it should be based on level and not on number of items used. An 'item' stat for the player, giving a skill number to item uses, which gives the chance that the item used will fail.

So if a level 13 (something low) player uses a Full Restore (instead of something for lower leveled players like...a Potion) there's a--high--chance that it'll fail. Or, despite the fact that the player is a high level with a good item stat, the more times the item(s) are used, the higher the chance for the item to fail rises.

I like this.  It is a great compromise and a little different and creative than just limiting the amount used.  Good idea! 

[Mr_Dark]

Well yes that should be possible to do. We'd just have to link all items to a minimum player level (or stat) to use.

[Jerry]

There aren't only potions in the games! There is the item 'revive'. Say a pokemon gets OHKOed by an attack, a revive would quickly get that pokemon on its feet, while the PP of the attacker will be decreasing. This also means that in a particular battle, one player might be fighting against 12 pokemon (6 revived) instead of 6.

The chances of success or failure of using an item isn't bad, but it will put the weaker trainer on more of a disadvantage. That doesn't sound that fair to me... I think it's the stronger trainer who should have a handicap I know, now that's unfair because he has more experience, but this handicap should be agreed by both trainers before battling), to make it more fair to both trainers.

[Gammal]

I dont think there should be ANY items appart from hold ones in pvp.
If someone is using a curse lax, cursing, cursing, cursing, down to very low hp, you can kill it since you are faster... But wait.. FULL RESTORE! GREAT! GG... NOT FUN

[Kuhns]

There aren't only potions in the games! There is the item 'revive'. Say a pokemon gets OHKOed by an attack, a revive would quickly get that pokemon on its feet, while the PP of the attacker will be decreasing. This also means that in a particular battle, one player might be fighting against 12 pokemon (6 revived) instead of 6.

The chances of success or failure of using an item isn't bad, but it will put the weaker trainer on more of a disadvantage. That doesn't sound that fair to me... I think it's the stronger trainer who should have a handicap I know, now that's unfair because he has more experience, but this handicap should be agreed by both trainers before battling), to make it more fair to both trainers.

My post explained that no matter what item the trainer uses, there'll be some kind of percent chance that it will fail. If a low leveled trainer decides to use a Revive on their next turn, it might fail, wasting that turn and letting the opponent attack the active Pokemon. It goes for any player item in battle.

Besides, if a weaker trainer goes knowingly into a battle with a higher leveled trainer, then is it no fault but their own. That higher leveled trainer might not even have a high item stat either. I also explained that even if the trainer is high leveled and they have a high item stat, the chances of them using any kind of item (including Revive, Full Restore, Max Potion, Whatever) again and again with success will go down.

[Mr_Dark]

In the end (PvP) battles will be as fun as you make them

[Gammal]

In the end (PvP) battles will be as fun as you make them

I do not agree.
With the possibility of setting up a baton-pass chain and also being able to HEAL the Pokemon with items does not sound fun to me at all.
Also the use of items will remove allot of strategies to the game itself.
What is the meta game going to be like in PU if we allow items?
A team of 6tanks...
Stall wars
Baton pass chains
A lot of careless stats boosting that will be hard to stop.


Chains are and SHOULD be tricky to set up.
Easy chain (from the top of my head)

Note: the * would be how it would work with items

Ninjask - Sub, protect untill at max speed  * sword dance since you are getting to full HP atleast once.
6+speed and +2attack (you could prolly get more but lets keep it at that)

Baton pass ->

Venusaur - +6speed sleep powder, ingrain on the swap  (I realize that venusaur doesnt learn baton pass, but this is just an example, you get the point. If someone feel like complaining about this and not looking at the big picture I will just move a grass pokemon to the last slot on the chain and then have it use ingrain)
(the pokemon cannot be phazed by roar etc)
Baton pass ->

Vaporeon - Aqua ring, wish, Acid armour, * sub  full restore
Sub does NOT break by even 2attacks

Baton Pass ->

Scizor - Swords dance x3 + Just heal here if he takes dmg

Baton Pass ->

Rhyperion:  Ingrain heal, Aqua ring heal. 6+attack, 6+speed 6+Armour GG

I could make the chain 6pokemon long but at this point there is really no need for that.

Ok you might argue that you can use Haze to remove the +stats
Yes indeed you can, but you are then once again limiting the amount of Pokemon allowed into the meta game.
I bet we would see allot of Weezing´s running around.


So yes, every player has the same option, but is that really what you guys are after?
making stat boosting moves even more powerful?
The big DOWNSIDE to the moves in the current games is that while you boost your stat, you opponent gets a "free" turn without any damage from the set-up Pokemon, hence you can counter it if you play smart.
But with allowing potions that downside will no longer exist.
If your buffed sweeper takes damage since you used stats boost instead of attack, you can just heal it.
Please explain to me how this would make the battling (pvp) process of the game more fun.
It sounds to me like people like this idea because they cant handle the switching part of the match, which is a big part of being successful in Pokemon.

On that note. Say you switch in a Pokemon to take an attack you think the opponent us going to use. But instead he choses a different one and takes your Pokemon down to say 20%, "Hey I made a mistake in my switching, but who cares? FULL RESTORE."
You might argue "yeah but he took 80% hence hes going to do that much dmg to you again"
IF I keep the pokemon switched in yes, but items are not only usable on the pokemon you are currently using.


Or how about this scenario:

I use Charizard versus a grass Pokemon
Sub on the switch
Belly Drum on his attack (lets say he doesn't break sub, or is asleep)
Sallac berry activates, thats +6attack +2speed ( I think)

Now I only have 20%ish hp with my Pokemon and it can be taken down with sandstorm or simmilar.
Now what happens if we throw a full restore into the mix?
+6attack +2speed +sub 100% hp.


Or how about the effects of toxic spikes / toxic?
Get a bulky pokemon with toxic, toxic all pokemon and begin the stall
Even if both sides has unlimited Full restore to use the one using toxic will win since sooner or later all pokemon die from 1tick, further limiting the pokemon allowed into the meta game of PU

Thats the type of strategies you are encouraging in PU`?

With the permission of the moderators I would like to copy this post and make a new thread with a poll.

Edit: spelling and extra thoughts

[Level5Pidgey]

Well, there are other issues with items aside from bringing money into the game, etc.

They upset game balance (You guys: "Oh no, again?")

1. They have priority over all moves. This removes strategy elements from the game (such as strategic switching) - as, why switch when you can heal your poke to take 2 more hits? This would also happen with revive, as revenge killing would be with far less consequence.

2. Some Pokemon are balanced by the fact that they do not have healing moves, and some Pokemon are actually used mainly for the healing support. Pokemon who are balanced as they can't heal themselves (such as Swampert) would get far stronger.

3. The defensive metagame would become far stronger, and stalling would be a far tronger strategy. Think of if someone had a Blissey who got taken down to 50hp and was going to be killed on the next hit (Blissey has lower speed, so at this point, you'd switch her out or go for a revenge kill). Screw that though, Potions have highest priority - she can be back to good health in no time.

No suggestions currently in this thread remedy these issues.

EDIT: Also exactly what the guy above me said.

[Kuhns]

 

Then how about this: only certain items are allowed AT ALL in the PvP battles. No revives, no full restores, none of that. Potions through Hyper are allowed, Heals are allowed, Held items are allowed, stat boosters are allowed.

Item Stat standing:

Use of a Hyper potion: 75% rate-->down 10% at every use (all the way down to 1%) etc.

Or how about this: Just put the use of items as a PvP option that both players decide on before the battle.

[Gammal]

Then how about this: only certain items are allowed AT ALL in the PvP battles. No revives, no full restores, none of that. Potions through Hyper are allowed, Heals are allowed, Held items are allowed, stat boosters are allowed.

Item Stat standing:

Use of a Hyper potion: 75% rate-->down 10% at every use (all the way down to 1%) etc.

Or how about this: Just put the use of items as a PvP option that both players decide on before the battle.

OR we could just keep it the way it is... hence no items at all
What would being able to use items bring to PVP? More fun? More strategies? More balanced play?
no,no, and no.

[Kuhns]

OR we could just keep it the way it is... hence no items at all
What would being able to use items bring to PVP? More fun? More strategies? More balanced play?
no,no, and no.

  Your unwillingness to compromise astounds me. There's nothing wrong with having the players decide before the battle, whether or not they want to use items.

[Gammal]

I think you misunderstood me.
 I was talking about generall pvp. If someone challenges you, you should just be able to press "accept" without having to start a big conversation about what if any items are allowed.

And its not that im not willing to comprimise, im simply asking what exactly the use of items would bring to the table, and to respond to your comment:

Im astonished by your ability to argue against my suggestion by completely avoiding my arguments and not adding any of your own.

So to help you out a bit here, im going to re-frace my response into a question(s).
Why should there be items allowed in battle?
Is pvp going to become more fun?
More balanced?
Are we going to see more Pokemon in the meta game?

I would also refer to my above post about the item use in combat and how it would affect the meta game, if you do not agree with what I have posted, please do tell, but argue your point so that I can understand you point of view.
Just saying "items should be allowed!" is not a proper argument.

[Alais]

Guys please. One of you thinks that a few items should be allowed, and the other thinks they shouldn't. If you don't like someone else's idea, say exactly what part of it would be bad for the game. Don't resort to cheap shots like mimicking. In a game that will involve a lot of PvP I personally think they should be allowed with the multiple use penalties.

It is a valid point about not wanting to answer a questionnaire about the battle every time you are challenged, and to that end I think the rules should either be fixed or be set by the challenger. This way once the challenge is made, it's just a matter of clicking accept.