Evolutionary Elixir

[Darkstar64]

Alright, now I'M the only one with a negative outlook on this...

I still think the idea is somewhat unfair. The whole idea of evolution is that you can either evolve and become more powerful, or not evolve and stay 'cute', and you have to choose between the two. It doesn't seem fair to have the ability to have both.

There are plenty of pokemon that are still cute when fully evolved so I don't see where you have to choose power over cuteness. Gardevoir and Milotic just to name two right off the top of my head.

The idea is for people to be able to use their favorite pokemon without being hindered greatly for it. Since the balance team is only going to balance fully evolved pokemon this adds even more leniency to people being able to use their favorites.

Alright, now I'M the only one with a negative outlook on this...

I still think the idea is somewhat unfair. The whole idea of evolution is that you can either evolve and become more powerful, or not evolve and stay 'cute', and you have to choose between the two. It doesn't seem fair to have the ability to have both.

Unfair? To who might I ask? Why should someone have to choose between having a powerful pokemon ,or being useless but "cute". If someone wants to use butterfree dressed up as caterpie then why not? Oh yes the caterpie might consider it unfair we don't want that 

I understand your point, but evolution is a choice of power or looks. When your pokemon evolves, your tradeoff is it's current look for a new look and higher stats. Here's an example. Let's say I have a Lillipup that's about to evolve. I don't really like how Herdier looks, but it has higher stats which will make my adventure easier. So I have to choose, do I keep Lillipup looking adorable, or do I suck it up and let him evolve? If I have this item, it lets me do both, but that eliminates the choice that goes along with evolution. If I can just make it cute again, why even bother not letting it evolve? If you're allowed to keep your pokemon looking like your favorite forever while still getting stat boosts, then what's the tradeoff?

Another point to bring up is, how does this account for pokemon who change their looks mid-battle? Two examples being Darmanitan and Cherrim. Darmanitan (or at least, a certain kind) changes into Zen mode when it's HP gets below 50%. But if it looks like a Darumakka, then how does it's appearance change? Does it still look like Darumakka or does it change to Darmanitan's Zen mode? And in the case of Cherrim, if it looks like a Cherubi, and it (or another pokemon) uses Sunny Day, does it still look like Cherubi or does it change to Cherrim's Sunshine form?

[Ursaring]

Why must it be a trade-off at all? Evolution isen't really a choice if your gonna be doing any serous battling ,so if anything is unfair its the guy who loves caterpie. Why can't he use caterpie? Also this is a game trade-offs are not needed.

[Roloc]

I understand your point, but evolution is a choice of power or looks. When your pokemon evolves, your tradeoff is it's current look for a new look and higher stats. Here's an example. Let's say I have a Lillipup that's about to evolve. I don't really like how Herdier looks, but it has higher stats which will make my adventure easier. So I have to choose, do I keep Lillipup looking adorable, or do I suck it up and let him evolve? If I have this item, it lets me do both, but that eliminates the choice that goes along with evolution. If I can just make it cute again, why even bother not letting it evolve? If you're allowed to keep your pokemon looking like your favorite forever while still getting stat boosts, then what's the tradeoff?

This seems more like an opinion that you give up cuteness for power.

This was already explained in my last post:

There are plenty of pokemon that are still cute when fully evolved so I don't see where you have to choose power over cuteness. Gardevoir and Milotic just to name two right off the top of my head.

Another point to bring up is, how does this account for pokemon who change their looks mid-battle? Two examples being Darmanitan and Cherrim. Darmanitan (or at least, a certain kind) changes into Zen mode when it's HP gets below 50%. But if it looks like a Darumakka, then how does it's appearance change? Does it still look like Darumakka or does it change to Darmanitan's Zen mode? And in the case of Cherrim, if it looks like a Cherubi, and it (or another pokemon) uses Sunny Day, does it still look like Cherubi or does it change to Cherrim's Sunshine form?

It's simple. Darmanitan under the effects of the Elixir would still turn into it's Zen Mode form because this is relative to how Darmanitan is used in battle. Cherrim on the other hand would not change as it doesn't do anything. So if someone would want to the see the alternate form of Cherrim then they wouldn't use the Elixer on it.

[Darkstar64]

I understand your point, but evolution is a choice of power or looks. When your pokemon evolves, your tradeoff is it's current look for a new look and higher stats. Here's an example. Let's say I have a Lillipup that's about to evolve. I don't really like how Herdier looks, but it has higher stats which will make my adventure easier. So I have to choose, do I keep Lillipup looking adorable, or do I suck it up and let him evolve? If I have this item, it lets me do both, but that eliminates the choice that goes along with evolution. If I can just make it cute again, why even bother not letting it evolve? If you're allowed to keep your pokemon looking like your favorite forever while still getting stat boosts, then what's the tradeoff?

This seems more like an opinion that you give up cuteness for power.

This was already explained in my last post:

There are plenty of pokemon that are still cute when fully evolved so I don't see where you have to choose power over cuteness. Gardevoir and Milotic just to name two right off the top of my head.

Sure, there are some of pokemon that evolve and don't turn out 'ugly' or 'not as cute'. But that doesn't apply to all pokemon, and those pokemon are what I'm talking about. If there's a pokemon you really like, but you don't like how it's evolution looks, then your decision is whether or not you want to keep your favorite pokemon, or have it evolve so it has better stats. Again, your tradeoff in evolution is it's current look and current stats for a different look and higher stats. Whether or not you like its new look is part of dictating whether or not you want it to evolve. I guess a good expression to use is 'You can't have your cake and eat it too'.

[Roloc]

Well seeing as there are plenty of other pokemon that don't give up cuteness for power, it seems kinda lame the the others do.

But this is all opinion stuff. I'd rather get feedback on important things like:
Ways this might break game play
How it could be miss used against other players
How it could be abused in PvP combat

Thanks.

[Arctus]

I guess a good expression to use is 'You can't have your cake and eat it too'.

You can if you ration it so that you only eat half of it, so you still have your cake, and eat it.

[Ursaring]

Well seeing as there are plenty of other pokemon that don't give up cuteness for power, it seems kinda lame the the others do.

But this is all opinion stuff. I'd rather get feedback on important things like:
Ways this might break game play
How it could be miss used against other players
How it could be abused in PvP combat

Thanks.

Well your pokemons true species is being shown in () ,so it  should not be exploitible right?

[nightshade06]

Yea as long as it has the ( ) showing its true form I don't see the problem in it...Or how it could be used to fool people in pvp and such since it will have that warning the other player that it isn't what it seems...
And I don't see how it would really break the game I don't think...Not very smart on coding and such but if it is just the appearance it should be just like a character in an MMO changing clothes or something..To where it still the same person just different outfit...That is the way I am seeing it.

[Roloc]

Yea as long as it has the ( ) showing its true form I don't see the problem in it...Or how it could be used to fool people in pvp and such since it will have that warning the other player that it isn't what it seems...
And I don't see how it would really break the game I don't think...Not very smart on coding and such but if it is just the appearance it should be just like a character in an MMO changing clothes or something..To where it still the same person just different outfit...That is the way I am seeing it.

Agreed. I don't see where it would break it either but thats why I want to hear feed back from lots of people. Someone else may see something I didn't.
And yeah, lots of games offer the ability to wear gear/clothes/armor and then have some sort of system that will let you change what your gear looks like in case you don't like the way your gear looks.

[nightshade06]

There is just that in Guild wars 2 they are called transmodification stones I think is the name of them lols Something like that...But it allows the user to change the armor they are currently wearing to something of another look of the same type of armor hence....Cloth armor- cloth armor.. So you can have the look you want

[Yume Tsuki]

Aw yeah! This way I can have an Azurill without having stat problems! :3

[Roloc]

Some of us were talking on the balance server about how one would obtain the Evolutionary Elixir. We came up with a couple of ideas.

A decently long quest to help a certain NPC and at the end of this quest your reward is that you can now buy the Elixir from said NPC for the right price.

The other

A daily quest that can be repeated everyday and the reward is 1 Elixir each day.

[Jerry]

I would prefer the first one, with a re-performance or revisit of the NPC at a lower frequency (once a week?).

[DaigurenHyõrinmaru]

I would prefer the first one, with a re-performance or revisit of the NPC at a lower frequency (once a week?).

I would agree with this. As much as I would like to be able to use the elixir would you really want it to be that easy to obtain? To me it would seem like it would be less 'valuable' if it was easily attainable. It would be cool to see an amazingly strong 'Charmander', but it would lose its lustre if it was that easy. This is just my opinion of course.

[Roloc]

I would prefer the first one, with a re-performance or revisit of the NPC at a lower frequency (once a week?).

I would agree with this. As much as I would like to be able to use the elixir would you really want it to be that easy to obtain? To me it would seem like it would be less 'valuable' if it was easily attainable. It would be cool to see an amazingly strong 'Charmander', but it would lose its lustre if it was that easy. This is just my opinion of course.

I agree, I would like for it to be a weekly quest, but also, the elixir wouldn't be cheap.